Q3. Water and Spirit Baptisms

[Stan]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[javier]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[peaceful gardener]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[sisterkay]

John baptized with water which was ceremonial. It had no power and the repentance did not bring a person to salvation. Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit - a baptism of blessing, and with fire - which is judgement. I pray always to be overwhelmed with the Holy Spirit. I so want to be light and salt for Jesus. My lack of complete obedience holds it back - God's Word continues to encourage.

[Clifford]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[Marloes]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John's action and the Messiah's action? What is the point of difference? Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? What might prevent this in your life? What might encourage it? http://www.joyfulheart.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=995

Both were having baptism.

John baptised as sign of repentence.

Jesus' disciples baptised in Jesus' name for forgiveness of sins.

Repentence is necessary to be forgiven.

Well, first of all you must believe it's possible.

[tom.nabors]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[Guitar Jim]

Water Baptism is a one time occurrence that signifies repentance. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process. We are told to be filled with the Holy Spirit in such a way that it is meant to be a daily renewing of our minds.

I've had the laying on of hands in a Church service to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and the immediate result or reaction to that was that I felt different in a way I can't fully describe. The next morning I had more energy and felt as though everything was right with the world. One thing that didn't happen though was speaking in tongues. The minister told me that perhaps tongues would come later. So far it hasn't. I do feel in myself a certain reluctance to just "let go and let God" as the old saying goes. don't know how to overcome that. As I wrote in yesterday's post: Things happen when they're ready to happen.

What could prevent me from being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? Many years of living a frustrated defeated life as a christian, struggling against the world and the old life. I couldn't count the number of times I've prayed my heart out to God to ask His help in living a victorious christian life and every time it was like asking the wind. I've seen people who've known the Lord only a fraction of the time I have soaring past me in terms of Spiritual development like I'm going backwards. It's just too hard to believe that this time it'll be different

[Guest Windy]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between Johns action and the Messiahs action? What is the point of difference? Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? What might prevent this in your life? What might encourage it?

John prepared the way for Jesus ministry. John baptized with water and Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit. John declared they needed to repent of sin and Jesus forgave their sins. I would very much like to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit. To do God's will without question. The only thing that would keep one from being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, would be prideful sin. But God continues to encourage as only He can, through His Word.

[Lory]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between Johns action and the Messiahs action?

Hi Everyone, many heartfelt greetings, shalom!!!

A.John's action was to get people to think about their current situation, to be baptized into a new understanding of life that is to come, and prepare people to turn away from their sins and be ready to hear the good news through the Messiah,Jesus Christ.

B.Jesus's actions was to give the Holy Spirit to all those who sincerely desire to receive and believe in His name, to give power and life to become the sons and daughters of God, through faith in Him.

2. What is the point of difference?

A.The baptism of John was with water only, no blood or the name of Jesus was used for the remission of sins. John's baptism was a demonstration, symbolic of what was to come through the Holy Spirit, that would purify and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. One must be willing to see, hear and receive the good news before it can truly take effect in our lives.

B. Jesus not only taught about the coming Kingdom, but showed the people that the Kingdom of Heaven was upon them now, through Him. That we are to repent,(turn from our old ways of thought and hear the new way) confess our sins,(be honest with ourselves and recognize we are bankrupt without a Saviour), and be healed, (receive the good news.) We must learn of Christ, beleive in what Christ says, abide in His Words, drink and eat His Life, follow Christ, deny ourselves, have faith in Christ, and trust in HIm for our Salvation. He will send us the Holy Spirit and fire. The Holy Spirit is the power of God that enables us to be transformed into a son or daughter, and the fire is the power that cleanses us from all unrighteousness through having faith in Jesus Christ. Follow Jesus and you will no longer be walking in darkness.

3. Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? That's a very interesting question. When I was first baptized at 15, I knew I was a sinner, I knew that I badly needed Jesus Christ and I believed that He could wash my sins and make me clean. I remember,as I was being immersed int water, I heard clearly the name of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit, but I especially remember the name of Jesus Christ, it was so loud in my head. After I was immersed with water, I felt clean and renewed. Something felt different inside of me, I knew I was forgiven, etc. For three days I couldn't think of anything else but God through Jesus Christ, no matter what I did, God was the first thing upon my mind,thoughts, heart, I wanted more of Him. I even asked my mother, "what is this huge overtaking that's coming upon me?" and she couldn't give me any answers. Only that she was getting worried and thought that I was being a little obsessed on God. It was somewhat frustrating not having someone to talk with about it and because it was so personal, especially from the response of my mother, that I couldn't talk to anyone else thinig they might think the same. Something new was diffinitely happening to me, it was good, but I had questions. There was an abundance of thirst and a hunger for God that I never knew, but at the same time I didn't know how to deal with it, perhaps how to receive it. To be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit is something that one should never take lightly, it's very real, and if you are not equipped with the knowledge of God's word of what exactly is happening to you, it can be confusing,scary (because of the unknown feelings that arise up within you.) If I could compare what happened then and now in my adult life,now I have learned more about Christ, and I know who He is, this experience is similare to some of my reocurring dreams I 've been having, it's like Christ living in your mind and it's not Me the ego living in me anymore, but at least in my dream it makes sense now, but at the same time, my ego/flesh is freaking out, because the voice in my head is saying, "I am the Christ." and the flesh is saying, "how can you say that, that's blasphemous." It must be the war going on inside of us between the flesh and the Spirit.

4.What might prevent this in your life? FEAR, the ego is resistent to the spirit, the flesh is afraid to lose what it thinks it knows or what it has believed about itself for so long, etc. There's a literal death that needs to take place in the flesh and personally I'm still not ready to let go and let God take full control over everything. I'm afraid and yet I know there's no fear in Love. Everyday I'm a step closer to going all the way. I do experience the fruit of the Spirit everyday, His joy, love, peace, long suffering, forgiveness and the conviction not to sin.

5.What might encourage it? Going into deep Prayer, and having more faith and trust believing in God to provide full understanding, to be equipped to receive His Power. God will not send us out there in the world like loose canons, nor will He send us out powerless, that's why there's discipling, study of His Word, it's truly powerful and not a game. It's a descison that we must make.

God bless and much love to everyone. Shalom, Lory

[Drand03]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[luv4Jesusanu]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[Lori Kaye]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[frontier]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[Old Jerry]

The point of comparison between John

[Highohfaith]

Johns action was to announce the coming of the one greater than he, one whose sandals he was not even worthy to latch. John was directed by God to announce the coming of the messiah, by being baptized of fire and water, one was denouncing sin, accepting the coming of the new messiah as Lord and beginning a journey of repentant of sin. Jesus action was to obey his fathers command to be baptized of the Holly Spirit, the dove ascending from heaven is the metaphoric Holy Spirit entering the Christ Jesus, and his Father announces "You are my son whom I am well pleased symbolizes the love for his son and all of mankind.

I LONG to be overcome with the Holy Spirit!! I devote much of my prayer time asking God to give me the presence of the Holy Spirit in my life. The Holy Spirit is Christ the TEACHER. I can only reach him through asking Christ to intercede with him on my behalf and come to me, helping me to comprehend the word of God. And to reveal to me the gifts of the Holy Spirit especially, LOVE,KINDNESS,PATIENCE ( I have a particular hard time with this one, however, I FEEL the Holy Spirit changing me, and is walking me through the journey to gain a better understanding of patience, and it's meaning in accordance to my living a Christ filled life.) PEACE, JOY, LONSUFFERING, among other gifts the Holy Spirit has to offer. I pray the Lord Christ Jesus commissions the Holy Spirit to point out areas in my life that need change. Encouraging this change from the Holy Spirit for me is to stay steadfast in the presence of Christ Jesus who lives in me and is with me always. Seek him with a ALL my heart! To live a Christ centered life. I have surrendered myself to him. Through the Lords steadfast love I have thrown away the old self and put on a new coat! One that honors and revels in God awesome power to change and love and endure forever and ever!

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[HeidiW]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John’s action and the Messiah’s action? What is the point of difference? Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? What might prevent this in your life? What might encourage it?

Matthew 3:11--- I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

John and Jesus both baptize, but John's baptism is with water. It is a cleansing, and a symbol of repentance. The Lord Jesus' baptism is with fire, with the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is internal, whereas water is applied externally. Water symbolizes the action of the Spirit on our spirits. That is, we cleanse externally, showing a picture of the cleansing and the renewing of a right spirit within us, that is taking place internally when the Lord "washes" us.

I do long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit. My flesh balks at it, to be sure, but taking the prayer from Psalm 51 as a daily confessional statement "create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me" God will hear that prayer, and the fleshly parts of me that cringe away from this fiery baptism, grow weaker (most days ha!)

preventing it is my own laziness. I know that, for me, prayer...deep intercession, laboring in prayer, spending prolonged quality time with God...is the key to being completely saturated in the Spirit. Yet I find other things to do with my time. Encouraging it is the flip side of that coin: spending time, making my time with God a priority. Being like Jesus who "rose early, while it was still dark, and went to a lonely place to pray" ...Jesus walked this earth saturated with the Spirit, so that He could speak to the storm and it would calm, so He could speak to a legion of evil spirits, and they would depart, so He could touch a fevered woman, and she would be healthy again. But Jesus never had a SINGLE MOMENT of selfishness, let alone ungodly desires or gossiping or coveting. What would it be like to live like HIM? Every day for Jesus was a day of giving to people, giving of Himself and obeying everything He saw the Father doing without hesitation.

Huh. hesitation is a big one for me, too. I ask God to guide me, and when He does, I say "Wha...? You want me to do WHAT?" or "Well, that's just my own mind talking to me. I don't have to do THAT" If we give ourselves wholly to His will, He will guide us the way He wants us to go. But if we stop our ears, and harden our hearts to His voice...He will withdraw. But Jesus gave without hesitation, without complaining or grumbling, never claiming even a moment of time for His own, because it all belonged to God and He lived just that way: totally given over to doing the will of the Father. Me? I want some "time to myself"...I want facebook instead of THE Book LOL I want a nap, a diversion, an entertainment...more than God? It seems so, judging by my daily schedule.

What will encourage this "overwhelming by the Holy Spirit"? I know I must be willing to give my time to God. Right now, He is calling me to "pray three times a day" (Like Daniel in Babylon) in the Morning, at Noontime, and in the Evening. He showed it to me clearly yesterday, and I did well for Morning and Noontime, then got distracted and did not pray in the Evening. Today I will do better.

Isn't it good that we are a work in progress! Amen. And each day is a new day. We can start fresh. Amen.

[HeidiW]

Water baptism was like an object lesson. It was a tangible example of baptism in His Spirit. When you subject yourself to emersion in water, in a sense, you have subjected yourself to the control that the water has over you. E.g. if you remained under water, it would eventually take your life. In a similar way, when we subject ourselves to the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are surrendering to His control over our life. As Christians, we know that to surrender to God and to be baptised in His Spirit is the way to go but I think it is always a struggle to give up control of one's life, one's lifestyle, popularity if necessary, source of means... ego. Remember that it is a spiritual battle (Ephes 6:12). Therefore, it is won on our knees.

DO I REALLY LONG TO BE OVERWHELMED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT? Perhaps not all the time. I know in my head that there is no other way yet, somehow, I still tend to compartmentalise my thinking and my life. I need to reach a point of Absolute Surrender. (See book by Andrew Murray entitled Absolute Surrender for a really challenging read on the subject. ISBN 1-86920-112-4)

Keith H, I love this picture! If we remain underwater, we will DIE. If we remain under the Holy Spirit, we WILL die...to ourselves. VERY cool.

[PATCH]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between Johns action and the Messiahs action? What is the point of difference? Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? What might prevent this in your life? What might encourage it?

Both actions involved immersion. The difference is that John's action was immersion in water, and the Messiah's in the Holy Spirit. Water Baptism is the outward demonstration that one has died to the old and sinful life, and is now beginning a new life in Jesus. Baptism by Holy Spirit equips and enables the believer to live a more victorious Christian life.

Yes I long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit, and I will be if I spend more time with God, praying and reading His word. Then only will I be sensitive to His promptings. Deliberate sinning, stubborness, disobedience and leading a superficial Christian life will prevent the Holy Spirit from working in my life.

[MarkH]

The point of comparison is immersion. We are immersed in the will of God through repentance that our way of living will bring death but living God

[HeidiW]

Note:

Fire reveals. In 1st Corinthians 3:13 we read: "Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire!" And the first thing that a baptism with fire does is to reveal what a man really is, to show us to ourselves as God sees us.

Fire refines, or purifies. In Malachi 3:2-3 we are told of the purifying power of fire. There is nothing that purifies like fire. Water will not cleanse as fire does.

Fire consumes. In Ezekiel 13:13-15; 15:1-8;19:12-14; 21:28-32, 24:10:11 we are told of the consuming power of fire, the fire of judgment that will consume the filth and dross of Jerusalem. And the baptism of fire consumes in fact it cleanses by consuming; it burns up all dross, all vanity, all self-righteousness, all personal ambition, all ungovernable temper in us as well.

Fire illuminates. When a man is baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire, truth that was dark to him before becomes instantly as bright as day.

Fire warm. We begin to grow warm, and soon we glow, glow with love to God, glow with love to Christ, glow with love to the truth, glow with love for perishing souls. Acts 9:19-22, this text alone could not describe the Apostle Paul

[HeidiW]

Water Baptism is a one time occurrence that signifies repentance. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is an ongoing process. We are told to be filled with the Holy Spirit in such a way that it is meant to be a daily renewing of our minds.

I've had the laying on of hands in a Church service to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and the immediate result or reaction to that was that I felt different in a way I can't fully describe. The next morning I had more energy and felt as though everything was right with the world. One thing that didn't happen though was speaking in tongues. The minister told me that perhaps tongues would come later. So far it hasn't. I do feel in myself a certain reluctance to just "let go and let God" as the old saying goes. don't know how to overcome that. As I wrote in yesterday's post: Things happen when they're ready to happen.

What could prevent me from being overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? Many years of living a frustrated defeated life as a christian, struggling against the world and the old life. I couldn't count the number of times I've prayed my heart out to God to ask His help in living a victorious christian life and every time it was like asking the wind. I've seen people who've known the Lord only a fraction of the time I have soaring past me in terms of Spiritual development like I'm going backwards. It's just too hard to believe that this time it'll be different

Guitar Jim (Love that handle!) perhaps the gift of tongues is not to be yours. Remember, the Spirit gives to each according to His will. Some speak in tongues, while some do not. Maybe your gifts are in other areas. And I hear you, in that I have seen younger Christians who are so much more advanced than myself, in the Lord. I know in my case, it is reluctance and hesitation, hard heartedness, laziness...these all are blockages within me that stop God from moving deeper.

The one thing that has helped me the most has been to make time every day to just SIT in the Lord's presence. I usually start with Bible reading, then meditation upon a passage that strikes me, or "pops out" at me. It means sitting still, not praying nor worship EXCEPT if the Lord leads me there. It means sitting still and LISTENING, and allowing myself to just be with God. I have learned more about who He is in the past three years or so, doing this, than in 27 years of knowing Him filling my head with knowledge about Him. It all has to do with His love. Sitting still with Him teaches me about His love for me, and THAT is changing me AT LONG LAST.

I pray you will find Him and be embraced by His Father Love. Amen.

[RodR]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John's action and the Messiah's action? What is the point of difference? Do you really long to be overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit? What might prevent this in your life? What might encourage it?

The comparison is in the "overwhelming", the difference is in the "agent" of overwhelming. John's baptism was in water, Jesus' is in the Holy Spirit and fire (Matt 3:11). Being "overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit" would result in following His lead in everything. Unrepented sin and the natural man make this difficult. Growing through the Word and becoming more and more like Jesus would encourage it. The good news is, according to Philippians 2:13, God works in us to will and to act according to His good purposes. We can have both the desire and the ability to live for Him because of the indwelling Spirit. As we submit to the Spirit's leading, we become more and more like Christ.

[jr4624]

Q3. (Matthew 3:11) What is the point of comparison between John

[Lion of Grace]

Points of comparisons would be baptism for cleansing and the forgiveness of sin.

Points of difference: John came preaching to repentance of sin and an outward show of cleansing for the forgiveness of sin, but John always told of the coming of the Savior who's sandals he wasn't even fit to tie.

Jesus was the passover lamb, offered FOR our sins, once and for all and by the power of the Holy Spirit (with us today)we are sanctified from within.

Do I long to be overwhelmed by the Spirit? Yes and yes! Sometimes the cleansing process can be painful and saddening to really see ourselves, but the gratitude when all is`said and done that we don't REMAIN that way is wonderful! We are so limited in our knowledge and wisdom and to submit to God can be difficult but I have never had a time I didn't look back to say THANK YOU for His infinite wisdom and ways. It was always for my good and to see in a better way!

What can hinder this? If I'm not in fellowship with God daily and in the Word. Or, if I don't trust in His love for me. If I don't let the Holy Spirit counsel me and guide me.

I am encouraged by His promises in the Word, I am encouraged when I walk with Him to see how faithful He is. I am encouraged when I read all through the Bible of His wisdom and faithfulness to others through all of time.